Today we are interviewing Patricia Hall, co founder of Zaubereigarten.com and co owner of the now famous Yahoo list, The Backdoor Hexologist. This is just what she has done recently, anyway first question
Patricia, tell us a little about yourself, and Germanic Heathenism, what age and from whom did you learn the Runes?
Well, I had an early start with Heathenism. My ethnic make-up is German-Austrian-Polish-Rom (gypsy) in that proportion. And I was introduced to Heathenism and the Runes by my maternal grandparents, who were just over from Europe. Of course we never called it Heathenism. We never called it anything really. It is just what we did. It started when I was very young, maybe 3 or 4. I had the ability to 'see' and to 'say' things that adults were thinking. I also remembered and told my mother my dreams and what I 'saw' in that twilight time between waking and sleeping. My mother made a game of it but my Polish-Rom grandmother recognized it and started to 'train' me at the age of 5. She showed me how to enter a trance and report back; to travel as an animal; to record dreams. She taught me to trust myself. And she taught me that she was not teaching me but ‘allowing’ me to be what I was. But my mother was not in favor of what my grandmother was 'teaching' me and so she put me into catholic school where I could not speak of what I was learning from my grandmother. This caused some conflict within the family as well as within me, but I learned to glean the best of both, in my own way.
As I grew older, the trances became more intense and I realized with my grandmother’s help
that I was traveling to other places as well as to within this world where I would
ask questions, gather information, have to struggle a little at times, and then bring back what I had experienced and share it. One technique she used was to let me lay in her arms and she would place a hand on my chest and one on my forehead, sometimes making circles or drawings, and she would sing to me. I have no idea of the language. Sometimes I thought it
was Polish and sometimes German, but whatever it was, it was my entrance to
trance and travel. She told me what I was doing could not be taught -you
could either do it or not. And I became pretty adept at traveling as an animal as well. She taught me to be the animal, to get down on all fours, see the world from the point of view
of the animal, growl, whimper, fly, swim, run, FEEL the fur bristle etc. When I turned 7, I found my constant traveling companion. My Austrian grandfather painted a small picture of me sitting between the front paws of a huge black wolf and gave it to me for my birthday. I know now it was more than just a pretty picture. I no longer have the picture, unfortunately, but the wolf remains with me to this day. During this time my grandfather would speak to me of Wodan and would put a hand on my head and bless me with that name. He spoke of Donar on whose day I was born and asked him to give me strength. And he taught me the Runes and to sing them as way to integrate their meanings into my young understanding of the world. By the time I was a young teenager, my grandmother was teaching me that if I wanted to cure I also needed to know how to curse and vice versa. And she taught me to sing her charms and to write my own as well. Then they both died when I was about 15.and I had nowhere to go with this so I suppressed it. I finished 12 years of catholic schooling and walked away from Catholicism and into witchcraft, ceremonial magick, Celtic Paganism….and finally came home to Germanic Heathenism.
What are your thoughts growing up in Philadelphia, within the Germanic/ Northern European Community?
I grew up in North Philly, Fairhill section, lot of Germans. My mother’s maiden name was Reichert and that got me a place in the neighborhood German Catholic school. This was interesting as I was then raised with a combo of the Heathen and Catholic perspectives of divinity, soul, and meaning of life. My grandfather taught me to stand proud before our Gods…the Catholics taught me to kneel and beg, poor sinful wretch that I was. This was the fifties and the old Latin mass prevailed with the priest standing with his back to the congregation speaking in a language that few understood or felt worthy to try to understand. I was captivated by it all, the candles, the incense, the Latin, the vestments, the music, and the ritual. I couldn’t wait until I could try it… I realized that dream was dead when I was seven years old. I was in the church with a girlfriend looking at the statues and the stained glass windows and the many side altars when I decided to go up onto the main altar and talk directly to my Catholic God….. So I did. I stood before the huge white marble altar, raised my arms wide in the fashion my grandfather had taught me and talked aloud, in English and person to person, to this God I was being taught to fear. Unfortunately a nun in the back of the church saw me, and the next day in school I was called up in front of the class and made an example of. Girls were not allowed up on the altar. God was to be knelt before and not addressed on an equal footing. I took it but I never forgot it. I finished twelve years of Catholic schooling and walked away, only occasionally getting into trouble for my Heathen ways and Heathen questioning of that faith. My grandparents taught me the power of silence. There was no need to make a fuss. I knew what was true for me and I knew how to keep quiet about what was said and done within my own family.
But growing up in the community itself was wonderful. In my home, we spoke English, German, and Polish. My grandmother occasionally lapsed into Rom after a few schnapps. Most other families spoke German and we had smatterings of other eastern European tongues. When you grow up as part of a ‘tribe’ you don’t really think about the celebrations, foods, languages, clothes, and customs as being anything special. It just is. We were in a German enclave in north Philadelphia, inner city, and there were only a few interlopers, the Italian family down the block for example. They were welcomed and I learned to really enjoy ravioli along with apfelstrudel. Now that I have embraced my roots and the pre-Christian religion of my European ancestors, I recognize all of the virtues of Germanic Heathenism in that community. These were the values I was raised with loyalty, hospitality, self-reliance, honor, among others. The community was hard-working blue collar that had a strength to it that has served me well. And the more I reconnect, the more it comes alive again for me.
How do you feel being PA Deutsch and how does that differ from the Deitsch? (PA Dutch)
Well, I was born and raised in Pennsylvania and I have German and Austrian blood so I guess that makes me a Pennsylvanian who is Deutsch. But I grew up in the inner city, in Philadelphia and we never considered ourselves Deitsch. I know the language is different. The Deitsch language evolved from Deutsch as a dialect within an enclosed environment over many years. We spoke high German at home. And the Deitsch have been in place in Pennsylvania for hundreds of years. Many of my family just came over early 20th century with the exception of the Fritz’s who arrived a few hundred years ago and settled first in Missouri then journeyed to Pennsylvania in a Conestoga wagon. I do remember always having apple butter, and shoofly pie, and pickled beets and eggs, and pork and kraut etc. and my mother kept a fraktur on the wall, and she loved hexafoos and had a rosette carved into the wood beam over the front door…...…but these to me were just very German. Of course, we have that common European root, just different arrival times, different experiences, different evolution.
Tell us about your background in Shamanism.
Well one day, about 20 years ago, I found a niche in shamanism because I recognized it from the teachings I’d had as a child. I realized I had been doing it but no longer in the disciplined or effective manner that I had done as a young girl. I returned to it with a passion and with a purpose as the work of the shaman is a service, and not an entertainment. I decided to see what was around and settled on a few Michael Harner courses. What I discovered was that lots of folks confuse astral travel with shamanic journeying. Astral traveling can be powerful in itself, but it is not the same thing. Traveling the worlds is different and I do not think it can be taught. I think my grandmother was right about that. You either can or you can’t. Techniques can be shown and practiced but there is some other innate component that has to kick in. Mine did at an early age. Some folks never will. It is what it is. We all have something different to bring to the table we just need to find what it is. That said, I liked the Harner courses for what they are while recognizing what they are not. My concern is the number of ‘shamanic practitioners’ that come out of these courses and claim the name shaman….to me this is misleading.
So what I do is journey ….a lot. Even when I am not obviously journeying, I am usually in several worlds at the same time. And I do it a lot in order to maintain my alliances within the worlds, to hone my skills, and to serve and protect the Heathen faith and folk which is an oath I took when I reached my Vitki, or Rune Magician level. For that I specifically use Rune magic, but I also incorporate other methods, such as shamanism. This oath was wrenched from my gut and my blood and my bone and it was as if my ancestral line was writing it for me.
It’s what I do.
What are your views regarding Hexerei and Schamanismus specifically are they different words for the same thing?
They are not different words for the same thing. They are different things, or, more specially, different methods. Many folks have become so ‘eclectic’-fied that all the pure meanings of things have blended and the real meanings obscured. These are the Germanic terms for witchcraft and shamanism, respectively. And let me add something to this as I have been called a Hex as well as a Shaman as well as a Vitki. These are all blended within me and I use them as tools to focus on and achieve an end. But I have a clear understanding of their differences, strengths and weaknesses in any given situation and use them accordingly. From what I know about the Deitsch culture, Hexerei was or still may be considered dark or evil. I was called a Hex as a child and was never taught that is was a bad thing. I think it was the Christian influence of light and dark that relegated Hexerei to the shadows and brought forth another form into the light, one that invoked the Christian pantheon and used Bible verses for healing etc. It’s still going today and, though Christian, can be found in the Urglaawe or Deitsch arm of the Germanic Heathen reemergence.
This reminds me of the Seidr versus Galdr discussion. Seidr is to Shamanism (kind of) as Galdr is to Hexerei (kind of). This is a whole other discussion as Seidr has become a kind of umbrella for many things including trance work and prophesying and Galdr is verbal Rune magic..
So, when did you return to the Runes?
About 15 years ago, I was in a metaphysical store and saw a set of Runes..and I remembered...all those years ago, all I was taught came flooding back. Why they never came to me before I do not know. But I recognized them...from my grandfather's songs, from the things my grandmother was drawing on my chest and forehead...I knew what they were. And I now know that the Runes I was taught as a child were the Armanen. I took them up and have not put them down. I am currently enrolled with the Denali Institute of Northern traditions. It is a 9 year program structured into 3 cycles of 3 years each. I have finished my first 3-year Initiate cycle and am in my 5th year Vitki level.
Almost a year ago, as I was working through my second year of my Vitki level, I met Hunter Yoder and I was transfixed by his work. He was beginning to incorporate Runes into his hexafoos. He was pulling so much power out of the void and capturing it on plywood with varnish and paint, that I knew it could be used. We began discussing his work and mine and so we became partners. I use Hunter's hexafoos as a focus for magickal workings. My primary workings with these have been for defense of faith and folk as his first foray into Runic incorporation was with the Aegishjalmar as the centerpiece of the hexafoos. Since then he has moved into the other Runic systems from the Elder Futhark and we have incorporated bindrunes into his work. As he evolves, so do I and vice versa. It has become a love as well as a creative partnership.
You possess knowledge of or were at one time both Xtian and Wiccan, why are they so confused? What role do both play in the Pennsilfaanisch Deitsch community in your view? (PA Dutch) How do they relate if at all to Germanic Heathenism? I guess what I'm trying to say is how should eclectic influences be handled by the PA Germanic Community? Feel free to reword this question to your own liking.......
Confused?? Hahaha..I think it all goes back to the ‘eclectic’-fied thing. Wicca especially has tried to be so many things no one can really say what it is when asked. And yet it does have a clear core description that is different than general or specific Paganisms. As for Christians I think a Rabbi once said that ‘the problem with Christians is that they are confused.‘ I am confused as to why they are so confused.
As for their influence, yes of course. Christianity is still influential in the Deitsch Heathen community but less so, if at all, in the Deutsch Heathen community. I do not believe Wicca is influential on the Heathen community in general. We do have a lot of Wiccans who join Heathen Meetup or chat groups. And we welcome them. The Heathen community is very strong in its cultural and religious identity and likes to hear the customs and work of others. But because of that strength and self-knowledge Heathens are less likely to be influenced by or incorporate non-Heathen views or practices. Most likely the influence runs the other way. I believe one of the reasons Wiccans and others are attracted to Heathens and Heathenry is because we are solid and organized and moving forward. We are a tribe and that is sometimes appealing to those who know they are not Christian but have not found a place to be, or any cohesive organization or set of values within their own community. I know. I was once there.
What direction do you see Germanic Heathenism going in the future here in Pennsylvania?
This is rich ground…..I am hoping that the blood call will prevail and more Deutsch will seek out Germanic Heathen communities. I would ask them to embrace their culture and to be proud of their roots. We have seen the growth. One year ago the Philadelphia Asatru and Urglaawe Meetup group had 4 people, of whom I was one…now there are over 10 times that. I would encourage anyone interested to contact us either via Zaubereigarten or on the Meetup group. We are just a small part of a much larger and growing Heathen community here in Pennsylvania. We are on the edge of the precipice. All we need to do is step off…and fly.
Thank you Patricia very much,
